*** Hook (bwh@azathoth.idsoftware.com) has joined #quake2 Hook, have you seen the modem to modem petition at all? (I have a lot more signatures to add to it) hook: Coming here must be SUCH an ego boost :) Hook: ok, this has been buggin me... is id pronounce I.D. or like bid? hook:am i wrong? or right? Modem to modem is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Hook, why not? Gee, how's that for a start? :-) At least like it was in Quake 1? id is pronounced like bid I always took it as id, (sounds like bid), from the freudian term of id (the dark, hold nothing back part of the subconcious) Hook, what if we got tons and tons and tons of signatures on that petition? how was it implemented in Quake 1? crappy, but having it is better than none at all okay, this is the choice you'd have to make - modem-to-mode, or internet play, but not both. They require radically different programming models. Hook..... you have 3 rendering modes..... You can have two data communication modes. It may not have run well, but at least it was allowed in Quake 1. A LOT of people are upset its not in Quake 2. i still say that whatever id does i will buy they're product cuz they rock!!!!! It will rock, of course I'm not denying that But a lot of people want modem support, and id is a company that responds to their fans. hook: will the GL work better then in glquake? (underwater cracks, transparency being faster) two separate communication modes requires a LOT of engineering support. Hook - Have you tried the perfomance of Q2 on an AMD K6 or Cyrix M2? Why can't I be optimistic? Hook: what was wrong with the modem stuff from Quake 1? how many modem games have you plyed this week? Modem support is already crappy........ i can live without it....... if yer really that desperate.. bring yer computer over to the guys house Isnt quake2 just a over hauled quake1, I bet even with the same modem support people would be happy WU-gaunt, no modem support is basically no null modem and no direct connect support modem support for q2 would be a waste of time in my opinion *John_Galt* * thinks that he can't even play MODEM games wiht his ISDN..... winquake took out direct connect and modem support together since their code was basically together well im sure someone will come out with a patch plus there's alwaays ipx I have a network so it's not a prob for me, but I used to not have one so I used direct connect hook:you were saying something about the sky in quake2. can you go a little bit deeper into that?? i mean will it be like in quake1? or something completly new??? (if so, then what??) Wu..... who has the money, among most of the population who'll play quake 2, to afford setting up ipx? the majority of the quake community are NOT on the net. Slip is right, there are tons of ppl who prefer modem, Im not one of em, but still slip...... well i dunno..... i just think its a waaste of time.... its my opinion...... if you want it..... go ahead... im not stopping you.... i waas just stating an opinion plus im sure someone will make a patch There are millions of people not on the Net, compared to the thousands on the Net...... No one can make a modem patch besides id slipgate.. actually the numbers are rising.... there are millions on the net...... soon at leasat 50% of the ppl in US will have internet slip: Okay, I thought there was some hack in Quake1 to get modem-modem support with dialup networking? hook.... right Not that I remember. I mean, all win32 computers will have dun hmm, cant you guys just hack in direct play support for modems? hook, it wasn't a hack, you had to use microsoft plus pack and set up a dial in IPX network through win95 slip///// there is a way..... i cant remember how..... but it involves setting up as a server sky in Quake2 will be radically different than in Quake1. Much much cooler. Brian, all I'm asking, is a one on one method involving two computers, two modems. if I have to go thru DUN I will..... but see, not everyone has the plus pack. hook:you were saying something about the sky in quake2 on this channel a couple of days ago. can you go a little bit deeper into that?? i mean will it be like in quake1? or something completly new??? (if so, then what??) you could do it with dun, but not fast set one up as tcp/ip dial in server, then dial in Will it need the plus pack? Starks, that's all I'm asking....... make a 2 player with 2 modems doable hook, is the new sky thing like that you can see stuff that is far far away get closer and closer? i believe i read something like that YOU CAN DOWNLOAD THE MICROSOFT ISDN ACCLERATOR PACK FROM THE WEB. FOR FREE. IT HAS EVERYTHING YOU NEED! I don't care if its official "modem" use. slip...i think you can download that stuff from MS... For the dial in solution it would hook: is there EVER hope for a native 3dfx Q2? ISDN accelerator rocks Slip or anyone else: I have this problem also, Quake doesnt run in DOS.... does anyone know where I can get that Plus! RAS thing? a native 3Dfx Q2 would be pointless someone give me something to download then. hook: :( too bad... hook: why? okay, can everyone chill for a second and I will go over some stuff Sure thing http://www.microsoft.com/windows/download/msisdn11.exe Now i still dont know how the sky will be (well it will be cool :-) OK, quiet guys, I'll shut up too *** Slipgate sets mode: +v Hook *** Slipgate sets mode: +m Go ahead Hook Okay, about Glide. I've said this before a million times. Native Glide support does NOT offer any new enhancements to us for features or performance, and it would take a bit of time to get it up and running, which means it would push back the release date of Quake2, which NONE of us want. If someone can tell me exactly what they think a Glide version will offer, I'd love to hear it. But in my opinion, a native 3Dfx version offers NOTHING over their GL So, I hope that settles that. Ok. As for modem support... Okay, here's the problem. We have a client server architecture. This means that if two people are playing head to head that one of them will have to be the server. The person who is the server will have ZERO ping. ZERO With a modem, the other person will have ping over a hundred at least. Maybe even more. Granted..... that's like Quake 1 This means that whoever is the "host" for the session will absolutely destroy the other person. It won't be fun, it wouldn't be fair. what about null modem? null modem doesn't solve the problem either. Hook, one player faster is better than no game at all. Null modem is usually rated as far as about 38.4K or something like that. Really fast null modem connections are a bit flaky. That's my contention with the petition I just want a way for two people, with two modems, to SOMEHOW do it A network card, on the other hand, can do about 1.2 megabytes a second, so the host issue isn't a big deal. I think that if it was really missed there'd be a patch Hook, is a patch doable by anyone other than id? There IS a way (I haven't tried it though), using what the other folks are talking about, e.g. the dialup networking. As far as I know (I'll need to check on this) this will still be possible with Quake2. Using Win95 DUN can a 2 player game be mocked up, that's my question? Like this: Dial-Up networking's Dial-Up server which is avaliable in the free Accelerator pack...you can play a psuedo IPX game... It's a hack, but it sort of works. Okay, to solve the problem FOR REAL, we'd have to implement a different networking model, such as a peer-peer. Hook, if its doable that way, please do it. This is what DOOM used, and it was good for that type of game. However, we want Quake and Quake2 to be more robust, which means a client-server architecture is the appropriate thing there. so if you were to put in good modem support it would mean two different networking models? WU-Gaunt: Exactly Alright... All I'm asking which would take way too long And different networking models is not something we want to pursue. Correct. Is, can we do it with the DUN two players I believe you can still do it with DUN. using their two modems. Could you check and get back to me? Hold on, let me ask. If there is "modem support" in that way, I can take the petition down. Is it still doable with DUN, that's all I ask. Talked to The Man, and yes, DUN will still work. Sorry about the +m folks Really? Yes! Yes, really. so two people, two modems, will work? that way? When we say/said "no modem-modem" support, we were specifically talking about NATIVE support within Quake. OK..... If you want to do some hack like using DUN, that's fine by us, just don't bitch when someone gets 80 frags vs -3 because the former is on the server. So, the petition has basically been asnwered? Yes. And it always HAS been answered. Our policy has never changed with that regard. Ok. We have specifically told people that we wouldn't do NATIVE support for modem-modem. Is there something that the client can do, like semi-pingflooding, to equalize ping? We have no philosophical problem with modem-modem, just technologically it's not a good match for what we're trying to do with regards to networking. No, that wouldn't be possible, since it would still hose both of the people's bandwidth equally. Brian are you going to be using any cool weapon effects like they did with turok? That's a question from one of the unvoiced people. Thank you regarding the modem stuff Ok Slip: Weapons effects are still being worked on. Our "Eraser" gun is pretty damn cool though. Sorry about the +m folks It's about to go off OK Thank you Brian..... *** Slipgate sets mode: -m See you later Brian. :-) *** Hook has quit IRC (Leaving)